Let's Talk Local Podcast | From Pain to Purpose

00:00

Speaker 1

Hi. I'm Sarah Subiyate Bennett. One thing we all share in common is pain. Every life carries it somewhere, but it's not the circumstance that defines us. It's how we respond.

00:10

Speaker 1

When tragedy strikes, grief takes on its own timetable. In the end, we can either let it consume us or we can rise, lean on faith greater than ourselves and keep moving forward. That resilience is what today's guests embody. Julia Hoffman founded Hoffman Collaborative Therapy after her own struggles inspired her to help others. And our producer Shannon turned the devastating loss of her nephew Ethan who drowned into her why.

00:33

Speaker 1

Becoming a certified ISR instructor to give children life saving water survival skills. Their stories matter. For parents, knowledge is power. For anyone walking through hardship, I hope this episode offers strength, perspective, and reminder that light does return. For full transparency, part of this episode was actually filmed in June and originally set to air in July.

00:54

Speaker 1

After the Central Texas floods, we waited out of respect for grieving families. But for those who lost loved ones, the ache remains. And Julia shares guidance for parents helping kids navigate the loss of a friend, especially now that school is back in session. Thank you for being here. So Julia, I'm grateful to you for being here today.

01:25

Speaker 1

I've seen you on some interviews recently and I'm really grateful that you're part of our community. Thank you Sarah? No because it's well yes I'm very grateful because we've recently experienced a hell of a lot of tragedy and heartache. And so if you would just tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me where you're from, where you were raised and what brings you into the profession that you're now living?

01:57

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah.

01:58

Speaker 2

Well, thank you again for having me. Of course. It's I'll make succinct. I'm from San Jose.

02:08

Speaker 1

Ah, Calgary, okay.

02:10

Speaker 2

It's beautiful. Yeah. And so half the first half of my life was there.

02:13

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

02:13

Speaker 2

Then I went up to Washington State. I went to Gonzaga University. Okay. Gonzaga. So I spent some time there and then fifteen years in Seattle.

02:20

Speaker 1

Uh-huh.

02:21

Speaker 2

And I met kid's dad. My then husband in Seattle, his family was from there. So big part of my life was And then in 2017, we moved to Dallas. He's a high school football coach. So we moved to Dallas for his dream to be at a Dallas Texas football school.

02:42

Speaker 1

Oh yeah. It's a thing. Yeah. It's it is a thing. It's a thing.

02:45

Speaker 2

And had my last my youngest, my now seven year old baby. Oh my gosh. And how did I come to this profession? And then I'll go to present day. Because present day is very different than when I had my last.

03:03

Speaker 2

I think like a lot of people, I had some interesting things as a child. Parents were sick. My father was had spastic paraplegia. My mom had pretty severe mental health in and out of psychiatric hospitals. And I just am so lucky, I'm so blessed that my family really supported therapy.

03:27

Speaker 2

So first time I went to therapy was in first grade. And I went to see Sister Dolores at my Catholic school, parochial school. Yeah. Because I was afraid of dying. And I remember going in there and talking to her.

03:40

Speaker 2

And every every stage there was some kind of support whether inside my family or outside of my family. And I just grew to love that dynamic, that really hard conversation that it's you know everything is better when you can do that. You can

04:04

Speaker 1

be Awesome.

04:04

Speaker 2

With someone and talk about the hard things. And I've talked about the hard things a lot and and now I love sitting with people and walking them through their hard times.

04:17

Speaker 1

Yeah. I love that. And I'm so grateful that you chose that profession. I did not grow up in a family that embraced therapy at all. I don't think that we really could have afforded it either way, but it was, I mean it's expensive.

04:36

Speaker 2

It's expensive.

04:37

Speaker 1

Yeah. And my mother was kind of like a sole provider as a teacher. And my father had a hard time holding a job. But either way, it was a dysfunctional household. But so many of the beautiful people in our community have experienced a lot of tragedy themselves recently.

05:03

Speaker 1

As I came back into town from traveling so we live in Highland Park and there's just ribbons everywhere. And I have ribbons in front of our home for the Harbor girls because my kids went to school with them. And Annie taught my kids. She is the one who lost the two girls. They were holding hands with the rosaries in hand.

05:33

Speaker 1

And so I've been praying for her and RJ since everything happened. It's been really horrible. And then it was also horrible because I wasn't in town. We were in Europe for a long period of time and so we would go to church, pray but the whole community here was grieving. And so I didn't get a chance to go to the funeral even though you can watch it on YouTube, it's just different, right?

06:00

Speaker 1

It's different. And so now we're in the moments leading up to returning to school and yeah, my daughter had a cheerleading practice or has been having cheerleading practice and one of her friends who was life flighted out of there with a helicopter. I said, how is she doing? And she's like, mommy, I don't even know what to say. And so what say you to a bunch of these young kids who are returning to school with a lot of the families that have suffered such loss and then some who are safe, Who didn't pass away.

06:50

Speaker 4

How

06:53

Speaker 1

do you recommend that the kids approach these conversations?

06:57

Speaker 2

Yeah. For the kids, I'm just so sorry. It's so that's just real close. Because my kids did not know anyone. Yeah.

07:13

Speaker 2

And we don't have any we did not lose anyone in our school or our school district. Yeah. You know, best thing is simply your presence.

07:33

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's what I believe.

07:35

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean I wish I could, you know and it sounds like a cliche. I wish I could have I guess if I had a system or an acronym or something that would be helpful Yeah. Talking to kids. But it really is just our presence as parents and being able, being strong enough to handle the questions.

08:02

Speaker 2

Because what you were talking about is and we're talking to them about this and we're looking at our babies. And it you know, all parents and I really think all parents that experience this, live here, just heard about it. It's traumatic, obviously. Nowhere near the families directly But the trauma of like watching it from afar and being really helpless and feeling because we know well we don't know. But just seeing their pain, understanding what that pain would feel like to us.

08:49

Speaker 2

So being there for them, being able to handle any question, and telling them the truth as much as they're asking for it.

09:03

Speaker 1

Yeah. And even last night, because normally I'll jot some questions and I couldn't even bring myself to do it. I couldn't bring myself to do it because I just thought this is just going to be a conversation that is from the heart. Yeah, this conversation with you is different from many of the others that I've had because it is so painful. And yeah, I just wanted to be authentic, raw, not filtered.

09:39

Speaker 2

Oh, yours are my questions for our conversation. Yeah, because

09:43

Speaker 1

they were because they often ask who are you interviewing? What is going on? Blah, blah, blah. Just conversationally and I was telling them I'm gonna be speaking with this lady and her name is Julie Hoffman. And I told her about you or told the twins about you.

09:58

Speaker 1

And I said yeah, we're talking about processing really difficult stuff. And I pray that God gives me the right things to discuss because I cannot sit here and write questions. And again I've never sat with anyone and not done that before only because

10:27

Speaker 2

Where do you

10:27

Speaker 1

even Yeah, yeah it's Start. It's so much.

10:32

Speaker 2

The not having an answer or resolution

10:36

Speaker 1

Yeah.

10:37

Speaker 2

Is that is just difficult. Yeah. And then when people, it says when people are grieving.

10:48

Speaker 1

Mhmm.

10:50

Speaker 2

Like I don't know if you've experienced this with with Monty or even your kids, but everybody grieves differently.

10:56

Speaker 1

Oh gosh, yes.

10:57

Speaker 2

Some people are want to talk about it, some people don't. Yep. I'm an external processor.

11:04

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. The husband is not.

11:05

Speaker 2

Yeah, and they always are good. But when you're grieving something as a couple like these families are in pain.

11:17

Speaker 1

I know.

11:21

Speaker 2

Complicated. It's complicated for people to feel like it's just complicated.

11:33

Speaker 1

It is.

11:34

Speaker 2

The thing that I like about talking about grief and with kids especially is the sitting in the uncertainty. Is the no answer. Yeah. And when I work with families that are going through a divorce and usually they want to have all that they want to have it all mapped out first. Yeah.

11:57

Speaker 2

Where everybody's living and I understand that. What do we say if they ask us this? What do we say? And the reality is they often don't have those answers yet. But there's chaos and pain and lots going on in the home.

12:17

Speaker 1

So

12:20

Speaker 2

kids don't need the answers. Kids need connection. Kids need to know that they can walk up to you and say, mommy I'm scared about you and daddy divorcing or that we have to move. Mom, why did my friend have to die? I'm scared that I'm going to die.

12:44

Speaker 2

You just repeat what they say.

12:50

Speaker 1

Allow Yep. Them to feel heard.

12:51

Speaker 2

Afraid of dying. Yep. I hear that. I understand that without any kind of answer. And that's all they want.

13:02

Speaker 2

They just want to make sure that they can be I mean at a core level that they can be heard. Yep. So that's just like that's my answer for hard conversations.

13:14

Speaker 1

Yeah.

13:14

Speaker 2

Say what they say and then if they ask you something and you know the answer and appropriate for their age, share it. And if you don't, it's a really good question. I don't have the answer yet. I don't have that answer. But I'm glad you asked me and when I do know I will tell you.

13:30

Speaker 2

And then specifically for grief, that's just such a such a good and hard question. Tell me what you're, you know, tell me what you'll miss about Molly. What was your favorite thing about Molly? And then just getting to talk about the person which is for a lot of people that's hard.

13:58

Speaker 3

Yeah.

14:00

Speaker 2

Not as much for the grieving, you know, people that have lost because that is that's what they have. They want to say their child's name. They want to remember, but people are afraid of stirring up things. My oldest said it was like, it wasn't like her graduation or something. It was like an event.

14:26

Speaker 2

And I saw one of her friend's moms who had recently lost her mom and she had cared for her for a long time. And I went up and you know kind of put my arm and gave her a hug and said I heard about your mom. I'm so sorry. How are you doing today? And she started crying.

14:46

Speaker 2

And so my kiddo reminded me of that like that I make people cry everywhere

14:52

Speaker 5

I go.

14:53

Speaker 2

And I

14:54

Speaker 6

made her cry at my

14:54

Speaker 2

graduation and how uncomfortable she was, you know. And I said I did not I probably didn't say it this eloquently. I said I did not make her cry. I invited her to share her sadness with me. Yep.

15:13

Speaker 2

Because people never are not thinking about it or feeling their grief. They're not. So when you bring it up, it's the analogy the phrase I love is they're always holding it. And when you ask them a question, bring it up, tell them it's safe to share with you. They get to put it down.

15:34

Speaker 2

They get to have some help holding it. Yep. Which I think is just a beautiful image.

15:39

Speaker 1

It is a beautiful image. I've never heard of that. Yeah. I've done a lot of work. Yeah.

15:48

Speaker 1

But yeah, that's a beautiful image.

15:52

Speaker 2

Because it's really lonely.

15:54

Speaker 4

It is.

15:55

Speaker 1

It is and just like this morning, it was the first time I had texted Annie since it happened because I've been praying and praying and praying and this morning in my morning prayers, just it felt really heavy on my heart to just today's the day.

16:16

Speaker 2

Yeah. Text her.

16:17

Speaker 1

So I did. Scared? Yeah. Nervous. Yeah.

16:23

Speaker 1

I was nervous. It was a are these words even words that I should sense Yeah, absolutely. Right? But then I thought, God take these words and carry them and just place them on her heart. So I kind of prayed exactly how I had hoped that, right?

16:40

Speaker 1

But yeah, it was my first time and so

16:44

Speaker 2

How did you feel after you

16:47

Speaker 1

because I kind of gave it to God.

16:50

Speaker 2

Yeah, right. I was like okay,

16:52

Speaker 1

please help here because this pain is so great. It's so great and I'm such an empath. I wish I wasn't because I'm also, I walk around everywhere with a lot of walls. Only because I know that I'm an empath. I know that I have a huge heart and for a large part of my life.

17:15

Speaker 1

That was tough, especially as a kid. So now I'm Because how

17:22

Speaker 2

much you got hurt?

17:22

Speaker 1

Yes, yes, yes because I, but then I'm also hot headed. I'm also very passionate and my husband, he has told me you are the most difficult woman I've ever been with, but you are worth all of it.

17:43

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's a compliment. It is,

17:46

Speaker 1

it is. And he means it as a compliment because I do know that yeah I love big and intensely. I'm an intense person in almost everything that I do I'm type A. So that's a lot for many people. Yeah.

18:05

Speaker 1

And but thankfully he is as well. He can be a handful but we're both that in our own way and it's a beautiful dance now that we finally are able to understand each other. Right? Understand each other.

18:22

Speaker 2

Absolutely. So

18:24

Speaker 1

in your practice what age group of people do you primarily work with? Do you work with teens, kids, adults only?

18:33

Speaker 2

I work with adults.

18:34

Speaker 1

Got you.

18:36

Speaker 2

I work I with feel like I work with kids because I know the kids. Yes. We talk about the kids.

18:42

Speaker 7

Of course.

18:43

Speaker 2

A lot. How are they going to tell them this? How are they going to tell them this hard thing? And because I've had the range of ages, it's it's just helpful for me to be able to think about it for the you know the different stages that they're in. But it's mostly adults.

19:05

Speaker 2

Right now I'm working with a beautiful couple who lost their child to suicide. Yeah. And Suicide. And it is there is just just just being just just being with them

19:24

Speaker 1

Yep.

19:24

Speaker 2

Is the work. I did a newspaper article and he was asking me about like what's my process and you know what's my modality and I just I don't have one for those kind of situations. I don't have one. I try to go in with nothing but a lot of pausing, a lot of listening, a lot of questions, and just letting them say whatever they need to say. And then to see like some of the people that I've, because I started in, I have a master's in 02/2009.

20:10

Speaker 1

I was

20:10

Speaker 2

pregnant with my firstborn. But I started my practice in 2020 during the pandemic. But just to see how I get pictures of people on their first blended family vacation

20:23

Speaker 1

like

20:25

Speaker 2

the mom and the dad and their new partners. Oh yeah. And the kids. Yeah. And it is such a privilege.

20:34

Speaker 1

Yeah.

20:35

Speaker 2

To see the arc. Feeling. Yeah from where they started. And where they are now and it's not that everything is perfect or they're completely happy or it's But they do have more confidence I think in themselves as parents. So that's a gift that I can give children.

20:58

Speaker 2

Because I really, really believe every part of my being. I really believe that divorce does not hurt children. It is not the divorce. Wow. It is the conflict between the parents.

21:16

Speaker 2

Yeah. So people think we're getting divorced. That's the thing. We've already done the damage. And that's not they have not done the damage.

21:30

Speaker 2

They have brought something to their children that's very difficult and that's a big change and it's going to be hard. But that's there's nothing inherently bad about that. What's bad is the fighting back and forth, the saying negative things about their other parent.

21:51

Speaker 1

Yeah, hate when parents do that.

21:53

Speaker 2

Who they're 50% or you know Of course. If they biologically share

21:57

Speaker 1

50

21:58

Speaker 2

of. It's the not it's the egos. Yeah. It's the not being able to somebody else comes into the family, another partner comes into the family, not letting that person love your child. Yeah.

22:18

Speaker 2

Or wanting to jeopardize it or feeling threatened by it. And I understand all that. I really understand it. But we just don't, there's We not a lot of see it. Yeah, we don't, there's not a lot of tools.

22:33

Speaker 2

I see it like we have premarital counseling and with baby classes. College, know help getting into college and school and all these different ways to be prepared for this next stage of life. And then married marriage counseling decide to get a divorce, right? That's that at that point, other than hiring attorneys, I don't I don't see a lot of what what's supposed to happen from that deciding to divorce to whatever's next,

23:16

Speaker 1

which is

23:16

Speaker 2

co parenting. There's not a lot of we don't understand how to do it. I think that's because people don't. People are not not like I never want to wave a flag and oh I'm a 50% time mom. Yeah.

23:32

Speaker 2

I have my kids half the time. I mean it feels shameful to a lot of people. So they're not necessarily talking about it or saying, certainly not saying things that are positive about it. And if we can support the parents at the point where they decide to divorce and you know mitigate further damage between the two of them and help them reduce their shame, and learn how to be with each other in this new way. It makes all the difference for the kids.

24:09

Speaker 2

So with those clients that I work with, that I have more of a system. That I have more of a helping them see the stages. Sure. It's like you have to be, it's going to feel cold in the beginning.

24:25

Speaker 1

It's just

24:25

Speaker 2

going to feel cold. You're going to look at that person and say, I don't even know them anymore. They feel so removed. I mean I hear cold a lot. Yeah.

24:36

Speaker 2

Well you have to because you're going from being each other's main person partner. And that's no longer, and how do you, can't just go from that to friendship.

24:49

Speaker 1

I mean

24:49

Speaker 2

I don't think co parents need to be friends at all. I don't consider my co parent a friend. I consider them family.

24:54

Speaker 1

Yes.

24:55

Speaker 2

But how do you go from that? You're upset, you're hurt because they're acting this way. So that's why I like to work with both parents. So that and they call me when they need to between sessions or text me. So that I can talk them down.

25:11

Speaker 1

Yes. You

25:13

Speaker 2

know. Yeah. Molly is not I understand, I understand it's hard. She's hurting too. She's not out to get You know if I can smooth those things over, then when they get to the point where that's not as acute,

25:29

Speaker 1

you know

25:30

Speaker 2

the feelings aren't as acute, then they're more set up for success.

25:35

Speaker 1

Yep, I love that. And it's good to know your specialty or understand it better because I like so many of the tidbits that I saw on your Instagram even. Just you should not text after 7PM. And I just thought, yeah I don't text after 7PM. And so you think about these things but

25:57

Speaker 2

Like telling our kids nothing good happens. Yeah. Nothing good happens after midnight. But

26:04

Speaker 1

it's so true. It's so true right? Those little isms that I believe are tokens of wisdom. And yeah, I just appreciate your insight on that. Yeah with that I just I know we covered a lot of ground.

26:19

Speaker 1

A lot of ground in this conversation but I appreciate your time because the other interviews that I saw you have, I was like those are so short. And I get it right, I get it that you're they're talking about these things but I'm glad that we had more time today to be able to explore other avenues of life that just paint a bigger picture of who you are. Because I know that that counts a lot when people are looking at who to choose to work with in their lives. So I thank you for being here and thank you for sharing your presence and your words. Thank you.

26:54

Speaker 1

Why did you choose to do Infant Swim Rescue? So we

26:59

Speaker 7

did ISR with Bear, my oldest, at seven months.

27:04

Speaker 1

Seven months.

27:05

Speaker 7

And I I just wanted something that would actually save his life in the pool.

27:11

Speaker 1

That's right.

27:12

Speaker 7

There's there's two types of swim lessons. Uh-huh. You can teach a child to love the water Mhmm. And you can do a soft introduction into the water or you can teach them life saving skills. Mhmm.

27:22

Speaker 7

And I really wanted them to have life saving skills. Mhmm. Especially with being in Texas and our access to pools and rivers and lakes and everything that we're around. Yeah. Was really important for

27:34

Speaker 6

me. Mhmm.

27:36

Speaker 7

And then my husband was a collegiate swimmer and so swimming Okay. In general is just very important for our family.

27:43

Speaker 1

Mhmm. Okay. Talk to me. Is he always this amicable and easy? Because he is.

27:47

Speaker 1

She's told me stories of some kiddos who are they'll be screaming and it's really hard for the parents to sit and watch a kid screaming.

27:57

Speaker 7

Yeah.

27:57

Speaker 1

But she's like, you have to push through it. It's really important.

28:00

Speaker 4

Mhmm.

28:00

Speaker 7

Four different boys have gone through

28:01

Speaker 5

it now.

28:02

Speaker 7

Yeah. We have had four different personalities go through

28:04

Speaker 1

it. Uh-huh.

28:05

Speaker 7

With him, with JD, it's been he's been easy this summer. Last summer, he started out screaming when he did it. Oh. He eventually And

28:14

Speaker 1

he was how old last summer?

28:15

Speaker 7

He was 18.

28:17

Speaker 4

Oh. God.

28:18

Speaker 7

So little a lot. I mean, a year Yeah. Little. He was definitely little. And so, he started out screaming and resisting Mhmm.

28:26

Speaker 7

But not as bad as Hayes did. Hayes was my worst. He Okay. Was a little tear out there like ear piercing, screaming, I I feel bad for Shannon. Oh my But she's like, I don't know how she does it.

28:40

Speaker 7

Just remains

28:41

Speaker 1

her composure

28:41

Speaker 7

and she she has so much patience.

28:43

Speaker 1

I know. I know she does.

28:45

Speaker 7

And she she got Hayes to do it and she's gotten in last summer JD ended up happy greeting her, like excited to come.

28:54

Speaker 1

I think it's really important to hone in on let's say the parents who give this a shot, but then they stop because their kids are screaming and wailing in the pool. Mhmm. Was it difficult for you to hear and watch?

29:06

Speaker 7

Oh, yes. I mean, especially when we did it with Bear, he was seven months old and he's screaming in the pool and I'm still seven months postpartum. Yep. And with her, I'm currently eight weeks postpartum, hearing my children scream, especially in the postpartum, it's really

29:22

Speaker 1

hard. Horrible.

29:23

Speaker 7

It is. And you just, somehow, you just get through it. I mean, there were times with Bear, I had to walk a further away and just kinda separate myself a little bit. Gotcha. With my second born, Samuel, I had to go hide around the corner Yeah.

29:38

Speaker 7

Because he was not happy about it. And, I seeing me made him scream even more, so I just would hide around the corner and he would calm down and it would he'd work better with his instructor at that point.

29:52

Speaker 1

Got it. I'm really happy that you spoke and I appreciate you speaking to how difficult it was for you as a mom to push through those difficult times with kiddos. Mhmm. Because I just want to encourage all of our viewers and listeners of this particular episode to push through those difficult times. Yeah.

30:07

Speaker 1

Because this lesson is how long?

30:08

Speaker 7

It's six weeks generally and it's a ten ten minute lesson. Ten minute lesson. You can get through ten minutes.

30:15

Speaker 1

Ten minutes of agony? Truly. Yeah.

30:16

Speaker 7

I mean it's it's not not that bad. I've had really bad screamers and at the end seeing how they float and how they can swim and climb out of the pool. Mhmm. I'm Especially having a pool in our backyard, there's nothing that can replace that level of I still keep my eyes on my children in the pool, but they have a love for swimming, they're not scared of swimming. Yep.

30:39

Speaker 7

And, they love the water. Uh-huh. And, they But, they're also safe in the water. They know how to save themselves That's right. Buy themselves time until

30:48

Speaker 1

That's right.

30:48

Speaker 7

In the case Mhmm. Of Yep.

30:50

Speaker 1

I just appreciate you speaking to me Yeah. About this because it's something I've always been passionate about. And you're a mom of many kiddos. And so, the wisdom I just can't wait to share it with the rest of our viewers and listeners.

31:04

Speaker 7

Yeah. It's been I definitely recommend it to everyone. Anybody who asks me about swim lessons, I always tell them to go ISR, so. Amazing.

31:12

Speaker 1

Do you suggest that they couple it, kinda like you do with ISR and then some Emlure or another follow-up?

31:20

Speaker 7

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't. Okay. Just because it's going to negate what Shannon or whatever your ISR instructor's teaching. Oh, didn't know that. It will actually hurt what they're teaching more.

31:33

Speaker 7

I did not know that. Yes. Okay. I wouldn't recommend it. Okay.

31:38

Speaker 7

Yeah. Again, we have kids who love the pool. Two of my boys are on

31:42

Speaker 5

the Of course. Swim

31:44

Speaker 7

we are

31:44

Speaker 1

still And it's pool super competitive.

31:46

Speaker 2

Well, thank

31:46

Speaker 1

you again. Yes. First off, thank you for opening your wonderful home, for Shannon to do this life saving work And then if you can just give me some insight as to how you came across ISR altogether.

31:59

Speaker 3

Well, I didn't do it. My wife came across it.

32:01

Speaker 1

Oh, she did? Okay. Yes. But And that was the same with Leah.

32:04

Speaker 3

Yeah. And it is listen. As a father, swimming is one of the true life skills you need to impart to your children. It's more important than riding a bicycle.

32:13

Speaker 1

That's right.

32:14

Speaker 3

You think about it. But And a bicycle, you don't have to live to ride a bicycle. Mhmm. If you live in North Texas, your kids need to know how to swim.

32:19

Speaker 1

That's right.

32:20

Speaker 3

And it is absolutely critical. Absolutely critical. I have seven children. Yep. And my they all need to be able to swim.

32:26

Speaker 3

Owning a pool, we are super safe. Yep. We have locks on the gates. Yep. Stuff happens.

32:32

Speaker 1

And so that's really important, at least for me to to hear. So you have a gate that is

32:38

Speaker 3

essentially that High.

32:40

Speaker 1

And it surrounds a perimeter.

32:41

Speaker 3

And it's lockable.

32:42

Speaker 1

And it's lockable. And despite all of that protection in place, you still were committed or your wife was committed to ensuring that all of your children knew how to swim, which is really important. Absolutely. Talk to me about pushing through the discomfort. So are you normally the one here with the kids or

33:00

Speaker 3

My wife? I'm here a lot of the time and it's the first time, it is uncomfortable, but really, you have a trained instructor. Mhmm. You know miss Shannon Mhmm. Who's our instructor.

33:11

Speaker 3

Very good, especially with multiple lessons where you just see that, yeah, she's gonna push. Mhmm. And they need to be pushed. It's like one of the things in life where as a parent, you really probably can't do that. Mhmm.

33:21

Speaker 3

But you have a trusted person who's trained and they can push. And because they need to be pushed.

33:26

Speaker 1

Dave, you can't talk to me about that.

33:27

Speaker 3

They're they're very careful

33:28

Speaker 5

Of course.

33:29

Speaker 3

Before they start a lesson. They're like, has your child eaten? Is your child well? And the first time you're like, woah, this is lot of questions. Uh-huh.

33:35

Speaker 3

But then you realize it's for their own good. Mhmm. And they're there being pushed, not first lesson. Remember these lessons are I think every day for about ten minutes.

33:44

Speaker 1

Ten minutes for six weeks.

33:45

Speaker 3

Repetitive, repetitive, repetitive. Mhmm. And they get pushed sometimes, and it's uncomfortable. And you you see it coming, and you know they're safe. You know they're safe.

33:54

Speaker 3

And the end goal, as you can see from these little kids swimming Mhmm. Is to be able to swim, be able to be safe. They're not training them to be world class swimmers, they're training them to be safe.

34:02

Speaker 1

I know that whenever my husband and I have parties, or at least I I was more mindful of it whenever there were a whole bunch of younger kids that didn't know how to swim. Mhmm. I was somewhat psychotic about saying, okay you're here if it's a nanny or whomever I would say you have to wear this kind of it's a little badge that identifies them as being the person that watches the pool during parties and events. And was and I still am pretty maniacal about instituting that policy at big parties that we have either at our ranch or here at our house in Dallas. But do you all do that for kind of your large group if you're ever entertaining?

34:42

Speaker 3

We don't, but our pool parties are are more small. But I get very uncomfortable when there's a lot of floaties in the pool. That's right. And there's kids Yep. And there's parents

34:52

Speaker 5

Mhmm.

34:52

Speaker 3

And everyone's very mindful. But this is why you do ISR.

34:57

Speaker 2

It's That's right.

34:57

Speaker 3

So critical because

34:58

Speaker 1

Exactly right.

34:59

Speaker 3

One moment and it's gone. Mhmm.

35:02

Speaker 1

Well, I just appreciate your insight so much, Chris. Thank you so much. I appreciate your thoughts.

35:08

Speaker 3

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

35:09

Speaker 6

I mean, people always think that there's, like, too soon to start swim lessons. There's not. With with my son, Mac, we started when he was nine months old. So Exactly. And when she was about that age, Hannah Claire, who's swimming right now Yes.

35:23

Speaker 6

Crawled just took off, crawled, fell right into the water. Yes. And it quiet. So quiet. You and it's so terrifying.

35:32

Speaker 1

It's just a they go in, and you don't hear it because they're so small. They don't make it's not a big splash. They're not flailing and waving their hands. Yeah. It's silent.

35:41

Speaker 6

It is. And you think you always have your eyes on all of your kids, but, they're fast

35:47

Speaker 1

They are fast.

35:48

Speaker 6

And quick. And so just the fact that she had the skills, I mean, they start with their itty bitty babies of the whole, like, hit the water and flip over and float. And it was fascinating to see her be able to do that.

36:03

Speaker 1

So she did it?

36:04

Speaker 6

So she, yes, she like went in and you could see that she was trying to come back up and you're like, I mean that would not have happened otherwise without this training and it's just such, there's no greater gift for a parent than to know that your kids are safe around the water.

36:23

Speaker 1

How did you come across ISR? And how did you choose this as your program?

36:27

Speaker 6

Okay. So I actually have a a close friend whose son did drown. Survived. This was years ago.

36:35

Speaker 3

He

36:35

Speaker 6

survived. He survived. He's, I think, 15 now? 14? 15 now?

36:42

Speaker 6

So this was years and years ago when he was three. And so, very traumatic situation. So, as she was trying to get him, you know, as he was getting older in swim lessons with him, ISR was where they turned, just with with him because it was a traumatic Of course. Situation. And so I knew I mean, just from that experience, it's like my kids will always do swim lessons.

37:10

Speaker 6

I mean and so through her story and then several others Hi, mama. Hi. Hello. You know, I wanted I wanted the swim rescue. I wanted them to if they fall in, they're gonna be able to, know what to do

37:28

Speaker 1

That's right.

37:29

Speaker 6

To get themselves up and out of the water. Was a no it was a no brainer for me to do ISR. It was like they you watch the videos of the kids and you're like or even when they put them in in their clothes and you're like, my kid could never do that. You think that they can't or that it's terrifying, but it is the most comforting thing ever to get through the cries and the screams. They should be scared of the water.

37:53

Speaker 1

They they should be.

37:54

Speaker 6

And so that is natural and and great. But for them to be taught the skills, the repetition that Shannon does with them and just the calm patients patient presence that she is with them in the water and the other instructor instructors that we've had as well have been great. But she's got a gift. Really does have

38:17

Speaker 1

a gift.

38:18

Speaker 6

Work with them. And so, yeah, ISR, I would I'm a champion for ISR. I love it. Thank you for sharing it.

38:26

Speaker 1

And then something I just I want to end with in this conversation is the fact that you've learned vicariously, right? Vis a vis someone else experiencing something traumatic and I am hoping and praying that our viewers and listeners get their acts together like you have, you're an excellent role model in this respect so that their children is not, they are not one of the statistics because it happens to everyone. Yes, the YMCA focused on underserved communities, the apartment complex through their Make A Splash program. However, it happens to every demographic. Every family is at risk when they are having children in North Texas.

39:09

Speaker 1

It is because it's so god forsaking hot during the summer. Yes.

39:13

Speaker 6

Everybody has it.

39:13

Speaker 1

And it it can never be underestimated. The importance is critical. Thank you Carrie.

39:19

Speaker 6

I appreciate it again for

39:21

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yes. Rachel, thank you for sitting with me.

39:24

Speaker 5

Yeah. Of course.

39:24

Speaker 1

Yeah. I thank I thanked Chris and Carrie for opening their home.

39:28

Speaker 5

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

39:28

Speaker 1

And I'm just sitting here trying to gather more insight as to how all of you chose ISR, how

39:36

Speaker 5

you came across Shannon. So when he was just turned to Mhmm. Going into the summer, I my husband's family has a lake house, and I knew we were not gonna go unless I knew that he was water safe. Uh-huh. I grew up as a competitive swimmer.

39:50

Speaker 1

I know.

39:51

Speaker 5

And my, you know, my I grew up in Florida part time, and my pay my parents said, you know, you don't have to love it, but you need to be safe in the water. Yep. That's kind of the number one rule my parents had, and that's the rule I'm taking with my children. Mhmm. And as a competitive swimmer, I've heard just horror stories of drowning and people being at parties and, you know, even just little kids not knowing.

40:19

Speaker 5

Yes. You just you just never know. Yes, ma'am. So, you know, my background is I'm an Olympic gold medalist.

40:26

Speaker 4

That's

40:26

Speaker 5

right. I'm a collegiate six time collegiate national champion. Mhmm. And swimming my kids don't have to swim at that level. Yep.

40:32

Speaker 5

They don't need to love it. They don't need to swim competitively, but they need to be safe in the water. And that's very, very important to me.

40:40

Speaker 1

Yeah. And so because you are this voice of excellence as an Olympic gold medalist in swimming, which, you know, very few people are. How did you choose ISR?

40:51

Speaker 5

I knew at two, he was not ready to learn how to swim traditional laps. Yep. And me being in the water with him swim lessons, you know, getting used to the water is great, but that's not gonna teach him a lot.

41:04

Speaker 1

Did you start if you didn't start with ISR?

41:06

Speaker 5

I I would start I'd started at a local swim school, Emlar. And, you know, I was I was in the water with him, which is great. He was getting used to the water. He was comfortable. But it wasn't teaching him a skill of if he falls in, what's So gonna going into the summer when he was two, I just frantically started searching the Internet, ISR, and I reached out to a bunch of different people.

41:27

Speaker 5

And Shannon's the only one who got back to me and was like, hey. I have space for you. It's near your house. And so we started, and I felt really comfortable with what Shannon was doing.

41:39

Speaker 1

Yep.

41:39

Speaker 5

And felt comfortable he felt comfortable doing it, and we came back the next summer. And then the next summer you know, we're here again. This is our third summer. I love it. So it was literally just Google trying to find it.

41:52

Speaker 5

Yeah. And now that he has Shepherd, my older one, has the skills of if he falls in, he knows what to do. Yep. Now I'm like, okay. Now we can move to a traditional swim lesson where he's learning to swim back and forth and learn strokes.

42:06

Speaker 1

Okay. So right now he I'm I'm just like changing a little bit. So he's calling you. He's saying mommy. And does he ever scream?

42:13

Speaker 5

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, up until today, he anytime he was on his back, he's been screaming, just upset and mad. And so the fact that he's even calm today is this huge shock to me.

42:23

Speaker 5

I think if he sees an audience,

42:24

Speaker 1

then he's chewingy. Maybe that's what it is.

42:26

Speaker 5

He's like he's like,

42:27

Speaker 1

there's people watching and recording. But

42:30

Speaker 5

But her patience is

42:32

Speaker 1

next level. I couldn't listen to kids scream and do this. But but that's the thing. And and then I I heard it from each of the other parents who've sat with me, and they said, yeah. It's it's uncomfortable

42:43

Speaker 2

Mhmm.

42:43

Speaker 1

To hear because he was just even saying it quietly, mommy, mommy. But if that was a Yeah. Like, have you ever had to end a lesson lesson early?

42:54

Speaker 5

No. I always defer to her, and she will, you know, end it if, you know she usually ends it on a positive note. Yeah. So Yeah. You know, if he does if he's having a really hard lesson but does something positive, then she'll end it early.

43:05

Speaker 5

But, I've never called it because I trust what she's doing Good

43:08

Speaker 1

for you.

43:09

Speaker 5

And it's really important. I mean, it's they're gonna be if they fall in, they're gonna be uncomfortable. They're gonna be scared, so they need to be in that headspace

43:16

Speaker 2

That's right.

43:16

Speaker 5

They do. As much as a two year old can be.

43:18

Speaker 1

But They do.

43:20

Speaker 5

No. It's it's been a challenging experience listening to them, but, I mean, it's a 100 we will do it did it a 100%. No questions asked. That's what we do in the summer.

43:30

Speaker 1

I love that. So, again, parents, guardians, whomever need to push through the discomfort of seeing Yeah. Observing, listening to their kids possibly screaming

43:40

Speaker 6

Yes.

43:41

Speaker 1

Because it is part of it to be able to save their lives. Great. Thank you.

43:46

Speaker 7

You're welcome. Bye.

43:50

Speaker 5

Thanks, buddy. Thank you so much.

43:52

Speaker 1

No, thank you, Janet. Yes. You are a freaking rock star and

43:57

Speaker 4

a blessing.

43:58

Speaker 1

Like, you're incredible. And I know that you're the producer of this show, but in sitting with a bunch of these parents, I mean, whenever you watch the role, you'll see their gratitude. I wanna hear your story if you wouldn't mind sharing that as well because for me, I would think that ISR would be in almost every community at this point because it's something that has a high demand as people learn more and more, okay, you're not throwing your kid into the pool to scream and drown even though that's kind of the conception of what And ISR it drives me absolutely bonkers because it saves lives. So you were at Kid Cratic in the morning.

44:43

Speaker 4

Mhmm. I did that for twenty years. Twenty years. And

44:49

Speaker 1

would you mind sharing the story that prompted this why for you to teach ISR in your life?

44:59

Speaker 4

Yeah. So I

45:03

Speaker 1

I know. I'm already over here.

45:04

Speaker 4

No. It's okay. So I had a nephew Mhmm. Ethan. Mhmm.

45:11

Speaker 4

And my sister and her husband had a home with a pool in the backyard. They had a fence. They had the locks. They had all of the things. Uh-huh.

45:19

Speaker 4

And then one night, Ethan and his grandpa were in the backyard doing something. Mhmm. And somehow, both of them ended up in the pool and fatally drowned. Both? Both of them.

45:32

Speaker 4

Yes. I don't know what happened. I I don't know how they ended up in the water. Could he swim? I don't I don't think so.

45:46

Speaker 4

I don't know. And so to say that getting that call was probably the worst moment of my life Yeah. Is an understatement.

45:58

Speaker 5

Mhmm.

46:01

Speaker 4

And telling you how horrific it was Mhmm. To walk into that hospital

46:09

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

46:09

Speaker 4

And see him lying there Yeah. Was awful. And it's it's one of those things. I think you and I have talked about we have talked about this a little bit, but the the guilt that I feel Mhmm. With that is still really heavy.

46:28

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

46:30

Speaker 4

Because with the schedule that I had with the morning show

46:34

Speaker 6

Yep.

46:34

Speaker 4

I picked him up many days a week. He was like a a child to me.

46:39

Speaker 1

Of course.

46:39

Speaker 4

So it feels like I've lost a child. Mhmm. And with that, I I feel like I should have had him in some kind of lessons.

46:49

Speaker 1

Uh-huh.

46:52

Speaker 4

But I I think I I maybe had the mentality of that's not gonna happen to us. Mhmm. Or it just wasn't top of mind. Yeah. Or you know, I I don't know.

47:06

Speaker 4

I don't know what I was or wasn't thinking at that time. But now as an ISR instructor and knowing that a child as little as six months old is capable of saving their own life

47:22

Speaker 1

That's right.

47:23

Speaker 4

If they're able to roll back and float

47:25

Speaker 1

Yep.

47:27

Speaker 4

That sits really heavy. Yeah. Sits really heavy

47:31

Speaker 1

Uh-huh.

47:31

Speaker 4

Knowing that there's absolutely something that could have been done possibly.

47:38

Speaker 2

Yep. I mean,

47:39

Speaker 4

you can never foolproof anybody, but you can definitely give them the tools Yep. That they need to do something

47:47

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

47:47

Speaker 4

Instead of just leaving them helpless. Yeah. And so that's why. Because if I can do anything to save another family from feeling what I have felt from what my sister and her husband have felt, then I wanna do that.

48:02

Speaker 1

Yeah. And so this happened to you. And how quickly after that was it that you decided that you wanted to become an ISR certified instructor?

48:14

Speaker 4

It was a little bit. Unfortunately, this he passed away on 07/13/2011. Mhmm. And then I had some health stuff happen. Yeah.

48:24

Speaker 4

So I needed to have that all taken care of. And I had not. I never even actually heard of ISR until

48:32

Speaker 1

Oh, okay.

48:33

Speaker 4

My sister, they moved to Maui to kind of Oh. Heal and Yeah. Got pregnant with my nephew, Jake. Mhmm. And when they wanted to move back to Texas, she said, we are not doing it until we can get him into ISR lessons.

48:50

Speaker 4

Yep. I was like, oh, I've never even heard of that. What is that? And so that was my first kind of like, oh, this is a thing? Yep.

48:59

Speaker 4

And then I would take him till his lessons every day because my schedule allowed me to do that. So then my relationship with Jake became much like my relationship with Ethan. I was picking him up pretty much every day. And so I was taking him to lessons and I was

49:11

Speaker 1

like,

49:12

Speaker 4

I could probably do that. Yeah. And so it was 2017 when I got my certification

49:19

Speaker 1

Okay.

49:19

Speaker 4

To become It's an a it's like a six week really intense college course. Yeah. You essentially do a session with what they call a master instructor Mhmm. Where you video every lesson. You do video reviews of every lesson.

49:36

Speaker 4

You do academics. It gets a lot.

49:39

Speaker 6

Yeah.

49:39

Speaker 4

It's really intense.

49:41

Speaker 1

Yep. Well, Carrie said I think that her seven month old, who probably couldn't walk at seven months old

49:45

Speaker 4

Right.

49:46

Speaker 1

Did ISR. I had no idea that you could do it at six months.

49:50

Speaker 4

Yeah. As long as you're

49:51

Speaker 1

could sit up.

49:52

Speaker 4

Right. The child is able to sit up by themselves and stay that way for one minute unassisted, then they are able and they're medically able to do lessons. Yep. Then, yes, they can start ISR.

50:04

Speaker 1

That's incredible. Luke still wears a floater despite how mean, he's done swim lessons for years. And I've suggested many times, maybe he does ISR. Maybe he does ISR. Maybe we just ensure that he can swim near water because it terrifies me.

50:26

Speaker 1

Anytime a parent asks me anything about that Uh-huh.

50:30

Speaker 4

I always say, if you're not going to do lessons, don't put anything on them. Uh-huh. Don't put a puddle jumper on them. Don't put a floaty on them. Because then that teaches them that I can be vertical in the water

50:45

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

50:45

Speaker 4

And maintain that. Yeah. And I think you've saw the last video with my nephew. Yep. He was wearing a full body puddle jumper, essentially.

50:53

Speaker 1

He was. He was.

50:54

Speaker 4

And that's not to say that he jumped in and thought that he could swim. We still don't know what happened. But, I mean, that gives kids that false sense of hope, false sense of security. Confidence. Exactly.

51:03

Speaker 4

That false confidence. And we don't wanna give that to anybody.

51:07

Speaker 1

Yep.

51:07

Speaker 4

So, like, when parents obviously, right now, it's the June. And kids are or people are swimming, and they're not fully skilled necessarily. So parents are like, what am I supposed to do with my kid right now? I'm like, carry them.

51:21

Speaker 1

Mhmm.

51:21

Speaker 4

Carry them. Give them that at least give them that I need to be with a parent when I'm in the pool Yep. Sense of being instead of, okay, I have nothing with me and I can do this.

51:35

Speaker 1

Yep. What is the youngest student that you've had? Six months. Six months.

51:39

Speaker 2

Mhmm.

51:40

Speaker 1

Okay.

51:40

Speaker 4

Yeah. And you've

51:41

Speaker 1

been doing this for how many years, Shannon?

51:43

Speaker 4

I started in 2017. Mhmm. So eight eight years?

51:47

Speaker 2

Eight years.

51:47

Speaker 4

Eight ish.

51:48

Speaker 1

Yeah. I think this is remarkable. Do you do it during the winter months too?

51:52

Speaker 4

Usually, yes. I have an indoor facility. Yeah. And so it has been a year round thing for me. Uh-huh.

51:59

Speaker 4

It's gratifying. I love doing this. Yes. And it's I mean, it's something that with every child

52:07

Speaker 3

Mhmm.

52:07

Speaker 4

You see where you start and where you end. Yep. So you see the natural progression.

52:11

Speaker 1

Yep.

52:12

Speaker 4

And it's just, it's really rewarding.

52:14

Speaker 1

Mhmm. Yeah, this has been remarkable and it's it's so sad making to me because you know, as we sit with this pretty pool and this calming water behind us, it's something that could take someone's life. It is terrifying because it can happen to anyone regardless of socioeconomic space of where, who, how. We are all at risk of having our children drown in North Texas and anywhere. But I just I appreciate you.

52:48

Speaker 1

Appreciate your time.

52:49

Speaker 4

No, of course. Thank you for coming and watching.

52:52

Speaker 1

No. This is like I said, it's a really cause that I'm passionate about because I do know that it takes so many lives. And thank you for sharing your story and your vulnerability.

53:00

Speaker 4

No. Thank you.

53:01

Speaker 1

Okay. Love you, Shannon. Love you.

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